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Post by Snes on Jul 5, 2010 7:00:47 GMT
[743]Tom seems to be turning the reaction image potential up to eleven in this comic. Check out those eyebrows on Rey.
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Post by edzepp on Jul 5, 2010 7:03:44 GMT
On this page: A lesson learned!
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jul 5, 2010 7:09:27 GMT
It's time to talk about what we've learned today.
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Post by Rex on Jul 5, 2010 7:37:53 GMT
I have enjoyed this chapter of the Gunnerkrigg Court made by Mr. Tom Siddell.
But seriously, awesome chapter. I'm amazed ole Rey forgets about his other label while freely calling folks demons.
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Post by penguinfactory on Jul 5, 2010 8:35:16 GMT
I like scenes like this, wherein characters are revealed to be flawed with none of the quibbling you often see out of writers who are too in love with their protagonists.
and oh man, talk about ending on a cliff-hanger. Since this is Jones we're talking about, I have a feeling she's going to get Annie to do something wierd and/or dangerous rather than ust giving her attention.
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Post by GK Sierra on Jul 5, 2010 9:04:31 GMT
That dialog sounds like Jones is winding up for a sizzling bitch slap on Reynard, LAUGHING ON LINE, and he's like "Uh-oh, I'm gonna get it now..."
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Post by hal9000 on Jul 5, 2010 9:05:35 GMT
You know, I seem to recall that some people argued that Annie had no responsibility to help Jack and claimed that to believe otherwise was absurd. Since Jones seems to disagree with them, perhaps they should try to figure out why she would hold such "absurd" views .
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jul 5, 2010 9:22:34 GMT
Am slightly disappointed. This chapter's experience of Zimmingham has been different from its previous appearance, but we can't even tell if such differences are a plot-point or merely an authorial oversight.
I had hoped for some clarity - as it stands, I'm no longer even completely sure Tom has clarified in his own mind whatever rules there are about Zimmy's interaction with reality.
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jon77
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Post by jon77 on Jul 5, 2010 10:37:41 GMT
Aris, could you give a specific example of a point that is troubling you? I didn't notice any troubling inconsistencies, but I expect that may be because I did not read the comic as closely as you did. I would appreciate understanding your insights.
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jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
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Post by jon77 on Jul 5, 2010 10:38:42 GMT
I wonder if we will learn why Reynard considers Zimmy a Demon.
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Post by idonotlikepeas on Jul 5, 2010 10:44:25 GMT
This is the kind of thing that adults in stories logically ought to explain to the protagonist, but never actually do.
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Post by todd on Jul 5, 2010 10:52:14 GMT
I was hoping for a longer talk between Annie and Jones over what happened in Zimmy's illusion, not only to straighten out the differences between the two experiences in Chapters Nineteen and Twenty-eight (the answer could simply be "Zimmy's plight isn't an exact science", but I don't think that would satisfy everyone), but also such questions as: a) whether Annie saw herself as Zimmy and believed herself to be Zimmy during that sequence, or whether the confusion was entirely Zimmy's and b) how, after Jones' remarks about being interested in seeing what Annie would do in that situation, the action turned out to be almost entirely Zimmy's. Maybe Tom's saving those answers for a later chapter - or maybe he sees them as best left to the readers' imagination.
And it does indeed seem time for *somebody* to point out to Annie that she needs to start going to people for help rather than acting like the Cavalry all the time (especially since a lot of Annie's attempts at fixing things haven't fared well - everything from sending Robot across the bridge to get Shadow2 home to trying to patch things up between Red and Blue). Of course, after some of the things that Annie's learned about the Court, she might have an additional reason for not approaching the adults there.
Since the bonus page would be tomorrow and the page after that Friday, I wonder whether we're in for a fourth thesis page on Wednesday, followed by Tea announcing another two-week hiatus with a substitute strip (perhaps whatever Annie's punishment might be is another stretch of detention, with Chapter Twenty-nine picking up after the detention ends).
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Post by nikita on Jul 5, 2010 11:00:15 GMT
I had hoped for some clarity - as it stands, I'm no longer even completely sure Tom has clarified in his own mind whatever rules there are about Zimmy's interaction with reality. I am absolutely confident that Tom has it all thought through and could answer every possible question - but chooses not to. It was a stunning chapter, but after all the buildup, the resolution came a bit too sudden in only two pages. And now it's almost as if nothing happened. Everything is back normal while lot's of stuff remains unexplained.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jul 5, 2010 11:32:38 GMT
Four points.
Time-wise discrepancy: the former visit to Zimmingham seemed to last a mere sec in real-time: not enough time for any outside event to intervene to break them out. This time however the ether-laden rain intervened to break the illusion. Spatial discrepancy: previously from an outside perspective Annie & Zimmy were as if they had never moved at all. Now after the illusion dissolved they occupied the same-spaces as their illusional selves. Visual discrepancy: previously Zimmy & Annie seemed to immediately flash to Zimmingham. Now there was that white empty space that gradually turned into Zimmingham. Mental discrepancy: previously Gamma (and Zimmy) both seemed aware of their situation. Now neither of them seemed fully aware, Gamma somehow believing she was in real Birmingham, and Zimmy believing she's Annie.
Don't get me wrong -- these are all minor discrepancies the way I see them, because one of them can be explained away as a mere escalation of the previous situation (the mental confusion), and the rest of them are minor details that don't affect the plot much. But still, right now, even though minor, they do seem as discrepancies to me.
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Post by todd on Jul 5, 2010 11:43:06 GMT
One possible explanation for the discrepancies:
In the original event, the characters were drawn into the illusion by the de-etherized rain. This time, they weren't (since the rain didn't fall until the end, and its etheric properties had been restored), meaning something else must have been responsible - most likely something to do with the Whitelegs possessing Jack. It could have drawn everyone on the roof in (presumably tapping on the power station's activation to do so) - and under its own rules, meaning a different set of conditions. Of course, now that it's dead, we've no hope of questioning it.
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Post by legion on Jul 5, 2010 13:17:34 GMT
Haha, Annie isn't going away with it after all. Great chapter
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preus
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Post by preus on Jul 5, 2010 13:34:54 GMT
Since the first year lasted 14 chapters, I wonder if this chapter represents the end of the second year. No one's mentioned what point of the semester they're in. How much time is left exactly?
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Post by nikita on Jul 5, 2010 13:58:14 GMT
Good question. I think it's march maybe? Considering the clothing in this scene, which only happened this morning (in comic time), I can certainly say it's not time for summer holidays yet. (Either that or the weather in the UK is even worse than I thought)
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jon77
Full Member
Posts: 245
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Post by jon77 on Jul 5, 2010 14:04:22 GMT
Very observant of you to notice those, Aris Katsaris, I missed them completely. I also agree with your formulation that they are minor discrepancies.
However, I would like to suggest a different way of looking at them. Make what you will of it.
Perhaps these discrepancies are part of the charm of this universe? They constantly remind the reader that there is so much that he doesn't know about this place.
To put it another way:
Would a Gunnerkrigg Court in which everything operated with clock-like precision, in which every apparent discrepancy was later given a mathematical explanation, be more pleasant to read?
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Post by Afalstein on Jul 5, 2010 14:20:09 GMT
Well done Annie, this isn't really your fault, next time you should tell us about it, Jack's not going to be in trouble, and oh, YOU ARE.
I don't know, I feel like this is more humorous than cliff-hanger. We might get an extra page detailing Annie's punishment, but outside of that I doubt this punishment will feature more largely in the story.
Jones brings up a good point--Annie should try working with the court more--but on the other hand, the story of Diego and the advice of Jones herself suggest that is often not a good idea. And in this particular case, how would bringing Jack to their attention have helped? I had the opinion that only Zimmy could deal with Jack's problem like that.
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Post by wanderer on Jul 5, 2010 14:28:59 GMT
I've been telling Annie for ages that she needed to start talking to people about stuff. But she has this strange determination to keep it all to herself. And that has rarely turned out for the best.
Unspecified, but if nothing else they could have contained him and brought Zimmy in to do something. However, I suspect Jones might also have been able to apply some force to solve the situation.
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Post by dawngazer on Jul 5, 2010 14:59:18 GMT
Thanks for the chapter Tom.
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Post by Casey on Jul 5, 2010 15:16:30 GMT
I agree that the reasons time and space worked differently in this chapter from the event in Power Station is that in Power Station, Annie and Jack were drawn into Zimmy's mind, where here, they physically stepped into a physical manifestation, or "bleed-over" as I like to think of it, of Zimmingham into reality. In fact, we don't know if this iteration of Zimmingham was generated by Zimmy herself, or by the spider which came from it.
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polifrog
Junior Member
Mesmerising ain't it?
Posts: 55
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Post by polifrog on Jul 5, 2010 15:20:30 GMT
Can't wait for the next chapter! ;D
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Post by Per on Jul 5, 2010 15:52:01 GMT
Can't wait for the next bonus page: Detention 2!Annie in first panel: "Here we go again..." Annie in third panel: "Detention sure is fun." Annie in fifth panel: "... Yup." Annie in sixth panel: "If you spoil the Lost ending before I can catch up, I'll order you to stab your eyes out with a fork." Reynardine: "WOW IT WAS AMAZING WHO'D HAVE BELIEVED IT" (cont'd below frame)
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jul 5, 2010 16:11:42 GMT
Since the bonus page would be tomorrow and the page after that Friday, I wonder whether we're in for a fourth thesis page on Wednesday, followed by Tea announcing another two-week hiatus with a substitute strip (perhaps whatever Annie's punishment might be is another stretch of detention, with Chapter Twenty-nine picking up after the detention ends). Gunnerkrigg Court: Orientation was 14 chapters and ~290 pages long. Research was 8 chapters and ~250 pages long. The current volume, so far, is 7 chapters and ~170 pages. Four points. Time-wise discrepancy: the former visit to Zimmingham seemed to last a mere sec in real-time: not enough time for any outside event to intervene to break them out. This time however the ether-laden rain intervened to break the illusion. Spatial discrepancy: previously from an outside perspective Annie & Zimmy were as if they had never moved at all. Now after the illusion dissolved they occupied the same-spaces as their illusional selves. Visual discrepancy: previously Zimmy & Annie seemed to immediately flash to Zimmingham. Now there was that white empty space that gradually turned into Zimmingham. Mental discrepancy: previously Gamma (and Zimmy) both seemed aware of their situation. Now neither of them seemed fully aware, Gamma somehow believing she was in real Birmingham, and Zimmy believing she's Annie. Don't get me wrong -- these are all minor discrepancies the way I see them, because one of them can be explained away as a mere escalation of the previous situation (the mental confusion), and the rest of them are minor details that don't affect the plot much. But still, right now, even though minor, they do seem as discrepancies to me. Don't forget ch 11. There, the impression was that the things Zimmy saw -- such as her hallucinatory memory of the Gunnerkrigg staff offering her a place at the Court -- were something only she could see unless they got really bad and manifested in the real world. Considering Tom's attention to detail, I'm loathe to write any of these off as mistakes, so I assume that the rules governing this magic can be very complicated.
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Post by Aris Katsaris on Jul 5, 2010 17:17:42 GMT
Unlike todd (I think) I'll be satisfied with an answer of "magic is fuzzy with no steadfast rules" -- as long as I know that the author indeed perceived and purposefully meant these discrepancies. It's the fact I'm *unsure* about whether the discrepancies were intentional or not that slightly (slightly!) bugs me.
How is that inconsistent with anything else? In fact I thank you for reminding that chapter to me, since it seems quite a bit more compatible with this chapter than with the Power Station chapter -- Zimmy suffering illusions and mental confusion, external intervention (in that case Annie's hand and voice, rather than etheric rain) helping break Zimmy out of the illusion, and so forth.
Wow. Actually "Dobranoc Gamma" now makes me lean towards Tom having been consistent all along instead - thanks again, mate.
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Post by Mezzaphor on Jul 5, 2010 17:47:00 GMT
Well, my point was just that it's nothing new that the "rules" of Zimmy's hallucinations are obscure and seemingly-inconsistent, since the rules seemed to change between "Dobranoc, Gamma" and "Power Station".
But yes, "consistent all along" does seem more likely to me as well, and they just seem contradictory because any given chapter only gives us a tiny glimpse of the weird stuff going on in Zimmy's head.
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Post by todd on Jul 5, 2010 22:49:47 GMT
Of course, there'd be far less story if Annie regularly went to the teachers whenever she came across one of those weird situations rather than trying to solve it herself.
If Annie's learned something from this event - and shows it by being more forthcoming with information thereafter - I wonder how that will affect the story. Many of the chapters are "Annie taking lessons", of course (Chapters Seventeen, Twenty-one, and Twenty-three all fall into this category, as do - perhaps - the visits to Gillitie Wood). And there are the "school activity" stories (like Chapters Ten and Twenty-four).
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amanmademonster
Junior Member
That's not a nice thing to say about a nun
Posts: 57
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Post by amanmademonster on Jul 5, 2010 23:00:59 GMT
This chapter is probably the most disturbing after school special I've ever read
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