madragoran
Full Member
"If he trully does hurt you, I will rend the flesh from his bones on your word"
Posts: 232
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Post by madragoran on Mar 12, 2012 21:36:15 GMT
Anthony Carver. Still a huge dick. What they said.
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Post by nero on Mar 12, 2012 22:30:37 GMT
It does seem like things are about to go down after the last panel but I doubt that Annie would harm Donny. I'm sure he'll be able to say something that will calm her down.
In panel six did he say that because he saw that he could figure out the code clearly or because Anthony would never call his daughter by a shortened name like Annie?
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Post by kinsman on Mar 13, 2012 1:42:13 GMT
I love the way Tom has used the top edge of Donny's glasses in this page, to show expression. As if they were his eyebrows. Perhaps they are made of a bizarre Court plastic that reacts to emotions! (Probably it's Art, though).
As to the dick-ness of Daddy Carver, I don't think we should judge him until we know more about where he is and what he's up to. Sometimes we behave badly under extreme circumstances, and sometimes we treat the ones we love badly, even when we don't mean to. Granted, though; at this point his Dick Rating would seem to be high.
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ryos
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Posts: 175
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Post by ryos on Mar 13, 2012 9:52:52 GMT
You know, I *thought* we were a little early for The Call. Maybe this doesn't count?
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Post by mikeymikemikey on Mar 13, 2012 11:08:23 GMT
Just to be clear here, I never said he wasn't an ass.
I just think that right now we can't really call how much of an ass. We don't know if he'll end with just "irresponsibly leaving daughter alone" to "98.132 kilohitlers."
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 13, 2012 11:17:15 GMT
But... he suddenly left everyone behind after Surma's death and as far as we know did not even say goodbye to Antimony Eh, no. Lack of the evidence is not the evidence of lack. Otherwise, "as far as we know", none of the characters used a toilet - ever. ;D AND the look that he gave her when Surma died was a far from pleasant one. Yup. Would he, with this, made a better father if he kept her close? who he, based on the previous mentioned look, seemingly blames for taking Surma's life. That's not even theologizing, but extruding indefinitely from one small spot. Both conveniently located at the Court. Maybe he is somewhere out there hunting Fire Elementals or scouring old libraries Which was more true or less true when he tried to find a cure for Surma? but that should give him plenty of free time to atleast send Annie an email once a week. That's a matter of taste. Some like fake smiles, some don't. Would ripping the Fire Elemental out of Annie [...] "Sorry for being such a terrible parent but I may have found a cure to rip out the very part that makes you you."? That is going to go over SOOO well. Yup. I looked into this possibility already - seems to be more plausible in-universe, than out-of-universe. Yeah, inherent risks and difference in points of view, while obvious, are not necessarily game-stoppers here (if we're discussing an obsession), but... I didn't mention as too simple one factor, however. It's also exactly what makes Annie, well, " Surma's daughter". How this side of the problem can get out of sight, even for a moment? Maybe it's slightly short of completely removing such a possibility, but way too big to offhandedly dismiss, isn't it? I doubt it given the Courts stand. You would think that they would LOVE having something like this available to them. Stranger and stranger. Why and what for? So given that all the current evidence point to Anthony being at the very least a terrible parent Realy? When? I didn't see him acting as a parent at all yet, let alone specifically "terrible" one. (hooray you cured your daughter but she is an emotional wreck with very understandable abandonment issues) That... poor... wreck... horrible imagery, isn't? and a huge dick by any measure you might think of. Wow. Cool! With such superior mental capabilities you doubtlessly also predicted these my simple questions and already are more than capable of answering! You know, I *thought* we were a little early for The Call. Maybe this doesn't count? ' The key word was "hear".'
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notacat
Full Member
That's not me, that's my late cat Mimi: I'm not nearly so cute
Posts: 188
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Post by notacat on Mar 13, 2012 11:44:46 GMT
You have to hand it to Tom. After more than a thousand pages of comic, he can still make readers jump to conclusions on the meagrest of suggestions.
Pure genius ;D
Surely those of us who have watched this story twist and turn in the most unexpected of directions cannot imagine that we know enough to condemn or acquit Anthony Carver? Is it even likely that by the end of this chapter we will know nearly enough to make any form of judgement at all?
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Rafael
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Cute and spunky
Posts: 202
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Post by Rafael on Mar 13, 2012 14:42:00 GMT
But... he suddenly left everyone behind after Surma's death and as far as we know did not even say goodbye to Antimony Eh, no. Lack of the evidence is not the evidence of lack. Otherwise, "as far as we know", none of the characters used a toilet - ever. ;D And this, guys, is how you win at internet arguments, forever ;D
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Mar 13, 2012 14:51:07 GMT
Eh, no. Lack of the evidence is not the evidence of lack. Otherwise, "as far as we know", none of the characters used a toilet - ever. ;D Annie didn't even know he'd left until she rang his work to tell him she'd been hurt and the hospital told her he'd quit and they didn't know where he was. So he clearly didn't say goodbye. At least not in a way she understood.
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Post by kitsune9tails on Mar 13, 2012 15:41:18 GMT
In this specific case, Anthony could likely not have said anything personal to Annie over the phone without messing up the code.
Of course, the coded message itself could be something intended for Annie (in addition to a request for the use of the Microsat), but I am not sure what he could say that would make her feel better that did not include "first chance I have had to get to a phone" or similar.
In any case, I do not like him so far.
I am just wondering if he is merely more emotionally clueless than Annie is, or if he's Gendo Ikari.
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Mar 13, 2012 16:00:40 GMT
In this specific case, Anthony could likely not have said anything personal to Annie over the phone without messing up the code. Of course, the coded message itself could be something intended for Annie (in addition to a request for the use of the Microsat), but I am not sure what he could say that would make her feel better that did not include "first chance I have had to get to a phone" or similar. Well that's basically it, though. As far as Annie knows this messgae just proves that her dad could have talked to her whenever he wanted and has just chosen not to. Which is a dick move. If it turns out that his limited contant with her is due to outside circumstances (i.e he literally couldn't contact her up until now and couldn't do anything but give her a coded message now due to him being held against his will somewhere) things are very different. But he still should explain that to her, if he's able. If his one message to his daughter leaves her with the impression that he wants nothing to do with her, then he's a bad father regardless of whether that impression is true or not.
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Post by Stately Buff-Cookie on Mar 13, 2012 16:03:04 GMT
Yeah, I think he just couldn't speak freely then myself. Not just because it could mess up the code, but that's something I hadn't even thought of myself!
Maybe he's part of a group he can't move freely in? There were some references to long bouts of training in his childhood. Maybe he fell back in with them after Surma died?
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 13, 2012 19:45:41 GMT
You have to hand it to Tom. After more than a thousand pages of comic, he can still make readers jump to conclusions on the meagrest of suggestions. Pure genius ;D I'm afraid we can't blame Tom for this... ;D Surely those of us who have watched this story twist and turn in the most unexpected of directions cannot imagine that we know enough to condemn or acquit Anthony Carver? Seems obvious enough. I'm not going to jump on it and promote instrumentalism, I'm not going to jump on it and promote instrumentalism, I'm not going to jump on it and promote instrumentalism... Annie didn't even know he'd left until she rang his work to tell him she'd been hurt and the hospital told her he'd quit and they didn't know where he was. So he clearly didn't say goodbye. At least not in a way she understood. How it follows from this that Anthony didn't say "goodbye" when he sent her to / left her in the Court? her dad could have talked to her whenever he wanted and has just chosen not to. Which is a dick move. If it turns out that his limited contant with her is due to outside circumstances (i.e he literally couldn't contact her up until now and couldn't do anything but give her a coded message now due to him being held against his will somewhere) things are very different. So, once again, it boils down to the question about the taste of fake smiles. And/or possibly to medical ethics. If his one message to his daughter leaves her with the impression that he wants nothing to do with her, then he's a bad father regardless of whether that impression is true or not. Look. Would you agree with any possible judgement of you creatively based on possible interpretations of your messages? If not, then take into account that you, while not exactly Cicero, can reliably convey meaning without raising questions such as " Jeez, who talks like that?" in process. See the bigger picture? Not just because it could mess up the code, but that's something I hadn't even thought of myself! Hey, it's Gunnerkrigg Court we're talking about. That is a pretty safe bet...
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 13, 2012 19:48:57 GMT
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Post by jombra on Mar 13, 2012 20:34:37 GMT
You don't see the possibility of removing the fire-elemental part of Annie as being similar to the 'decontamination' rooms? I always saw those rooms being used to sever the connection between, let's say, the dog and the forest. If the dog was alive on its own I don't think it would have any effect. Whoever was controlling it I imagine is perfectly fine. Trying to remove Annie's fire-elemental part would likely be much more invasive. It would be like trying to turn a rottweiler/labrador cross into just a rottweiler. Which is impossible in the real world, and also diabolical and I don't think Anthony is that evil.
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cass
Junior Member
Posts: 58
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Post by cass on Mar 13, 2012 20:48:19 GMT
Eh, no. Lack of the evidence is not the evidence of lack. Otherwise, "as far as we know", none of the characters used a toilet - ever. Sort of. It is evidence of lack, if you'd expect to have found it were it there. I guess the question is whether you think that him saying goodbye would be an important enough event to have shown up in the story by now.
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 13, 2012 21:09:02 GMT
Of course, after saying or not saying goodbye, he then quit his job and moved without telling his daughter that he did so, or how he could be contacted again. But I'm sure he's a swell guy.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 14, 2012 0:22:03 GMT
Here seems to be a problem either with definitions or with elementary logic. I understand under "wreck" a long-term state characterized by inability to be happy or otherwise function normally, that is by definition a quality present continuously. Hence one counter-examples can be a proof that it's not appliable. Do you define it as having ability to be unhappy? Because otherwise i got no idea what and how these examples are supposed to prove. You don't see the possibility of removing the fire-elemental part of Annie as being similar to the 'decontamination' rooms? No. I ask why and what for anyone in the Court - let alone anyone who really matters - would want to do this. In this specific case or in general. Especially given that their only trouble of this nature is with remotely controlled plants - and on these, as you just mentioned, decontamination works well enough as it is. Sort of. It is evidence of lack, if you'd expect to have found it were it there. I guess the question is whether you think that him saying goodbye would be an important enough event to have shown up in the story by now. Aye, also this obviously had to happen before the start of the story, since at the page 2 Annie is already at the court. Expectation argument applied to Gunnerkrigg Court is... mmm... ;D Thanks, i guess. ;D And it's doubly hilarious given just how many various important and interesting events we know happened one way or another (both during the story timeline and before it) weren't shown, at least yet. Which is impossible in the real world, and also diabolical and I don't think Anthony is that evil. Ah, but that's the whole bone of contention.
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Post by atteSmythe on Mar 14, 2012 6:36:06 GMT
Here seems to be a problem either with definitions or with elementary logic. I understand under "wreck" a long-term state characterized by inability to be happy or otherwise function normally, that is by definition a quality present continuously. I've always understood an 'emotional wreck' to be someone who tends to be unhappy and overreacts to negative emotion in a way that seems unpredictable to the 'well adjusted.'
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Post by cu on Mar 14, 2012 7:53:45 GMT
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 14, 2012 9:18:45 GMT
I've always understood an 'emotional wreck' to be someone who tends to be unhappy and overreacts to negative emotion in a way that seems unpredictable to the 'well adjusted.' I though that's colloquially called "drama queen"... ;D Well, I think the "Anthony has disappeared from his daughter's life for two years without saying goodbye" camp has enough evidence. What do you see on the linked page? Because i see Annie after the first year in the Court's school. Again, i see an evidence of either faulty browser cache or grand, across-the-canyon, logic leaps. Could you trace the unbroken path to these conclusions on the ground level? And, yup, that earns no loving daddy brownie points Duh, but i doubt he's much of a brownie points pacman... I'm afraid, that deposit of ages-old experience he would be less of help as a teacher than, say, Odin. What with not even inviting humans to his place.
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Mar 14, 2012 9:30:06 GMT
How it follows from this that Anthony didn't say "goodbye" when he sent her to / left her in the Court? Okay, I think I see the dispute here. Did he say goodbye as in "you're going to a new school Antimony, goodbye"? Well, yeah possibly. Did he say goodbye as in "antimony, I'm not going to be able to speak with you for another few years, this has nothing to do with you, goodbye"? Well, no. Because we know Antimony didn't know that she was going to lose contact with him. She thought she could still ring his work if she needed him. So if he did say goodbye it was not taken as the kind of goodbye it was. It would be like me saying "I'm going to the shops, bye" and then just never coming back. The fact that I'd said the word bye doesn't mean I'd gone through the actual emotional ceremony of saying goodbye. If you're so bad with people that you love your daughter but she still thinks you've abandoned her, you need to try and harder at being good with people. Incompetence isn't an excuse on something so fundamental as giving your daughter the impression you want nothing to do with her. If I shout Fire in a crowded room and cause a riot, whether I intended the riot or was just loudly musing about my favourite type of pokemon is beside the point, it's still my fault.
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Post by warrl on Mar 14, 2012 21:28:11 GMT
I like how in this page you can really see that Donny is Kat's father. I'd love to see them working together on something, there'd be so much excitement! We almost did. Although it would have been really neat if the figure in the doorway coming to help out had been Agatha Heterodyne.
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Post by warrl on Mar 14, 2012 21:33:29 GMT
You have to hand it to Tom. After more than a thousand pages of comic, he can still make readers jump to conclusions on the meagrest of suggestions. Conclusion-jumping is the national sport of the internet.
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Post by TBeholder on Mar 14, 2012 22:35:15 GMT
Okay, I think I see the dispute here. Did he say goodbye as in "you're going to a new school Antimony, goodbye"? Well, yeah possibly. Did he say goodbye as in "antimony, I'm not going to be able to speak with you for another few years, this has nothing to do with you, goodbye"? Well, no. In my eyes approximately at this point the discussion lost not only any mechanical connection with the ground it had, but even WIG effect. I can only wave a handkerchief in the general direction of a contrail... If you're so bad with people that you love your daughter but she still thinks you've abandoned her, you need to try and harder at being good with people. Incompetence isn't an excuse on something so fundamental as giving your daughter the impression you want nothing to do with her. So you do claim to be immune to misinterpretation? If I shout Fire in a crowded room and cause a riot I'm too lazy to construe a "carrot juice is murder!" style parody, so let's just say this argument sunk upon launch. A good attempt, but you lost the analogy right from the start. How to put it nicely... ah, when you build the model starting from the desired conclusion instead of trying to faithfully refllect your data, this happens more often than not. Yes, an interesting behind-the-scene-scene. Did he help? Advice? Look over her shoulder and nod approvingly?.. Although it would have been really neat if the figure in the doorway coming to help out had been Agatha Heterodyne. No, no, Kat have to play this role herself. So that would be either cosplay or an inspiration. Conclusion-jumping is the national sport of the internet. So true. I'd much prefer to see this at least without solid-fuel boosters, but even that's probably just wishful thinking.
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gary
Full Member
Posts: 121
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Post by gary on Mar 15, 2012 9:01:00 GMT
[ So you do claim to be immune to misinterpretation? It's more that I'm claiming most responsibilty for misinterpretation is on the person trying to communicate rather than the person trying to interpretate. It's the fact that I spend a lot of my youth being misinterpretated that led to me that conclusion.
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